Please tell us how you get started as recording engineer/producer?
DB: I never intended to be one. Originally I just wanted my own place to rehearse and record my own songs at odd hours (I have an abnormal, erratic sleep cycle) and not have my neighbors call the cops on me. It started out with just soundproofing the guest house which my late aunt left me. Then I bought a drum kit, and a second drum kit, then amps and then it just snowballed from there. I eventually ended up accumulating more and more gear until I had everything necessary to start Noiseworks. I figured if nothing else, this place can bring in some extra cash to pay for the stuff I had already accumulated.
Ian: It was the mid 90's and my old garage band’s rehearsal space opened to the public [mostly just friends and their bands plus the occasional neighborhood punk band at first]. It was during this time that I inherited an old Kenwood tape deck that had both an auxiliary in and a stereo line-in and we had these hooked up to an old 8 track mixer/PA.
We recorded our live rehearsals for mostly just songwriting but then our other patrons took notice of the setup we had -- it finally came to a point that we didn’t take on as many rehearsal schedules because recording demos took up a lot of time setting up and tearing down.
Feedback gathered from people said that our recorded demos had a reputation for having a clear kick drum and bass guitar sound that could be heard in the “mix”-- unheard of in those days and in that method. What made our DIY configuration, without the benefit of formal training, better than some of the stuff I heard from actual recording studios was what really got me seriously into the thing.
Aside from the usual studio instruments, do you have something else that you think make your job easier in the studio?
Ian: I have a really comfy chair and air-conditioning!
What exactly are the roles of a producer/engineer on a certain record?
DB: In a nutshell, a producer sets the overall tone and vision for the performer, something to guide their performance. While the engineer is in charge of realizing that vision by refining the raw recorded performance into something as close to the producer's vision as the limits of recording technology will allow. On a related note, I don't mind if a member of the band is the acting producer during a session and in post production but I don't allow producers who aren't band members in the studio. Take note if your girlfriend is your producer you can fuck off and record somewhere else.
Ian:The role I assumed in our studio is to make things run as smoothly as possible for the time we have available. Yes, I take it upon myself to make the a project sound the best that it can. But the band sounding good is still just the band -- sounding good. Yes, they can sound better but there’s only so much you can do if they suck.
Technically, what’s the difference between a producer and a sound engineer?
DB: Strictly speaking, the producer advises the performer on how the recording ultimately ought to turn out sound-wise, while the engineer actually sets up the room, the gear, coaches the performer on certain techniques to facilitate getting a particular sound (mic technique for vocals for example) and twiddles the knobs to coax that particular sound out of a raw recording.
Ian: An engineer’s like the surgeon to the producer’s diagnostician. In some cases, the attending physician can also be your surgeon. Dunno if that makes any sense! Haha!
What are the pros and cons of having your own studio and doing everything from tracking to mastering, even sweeping the floor, haha?
DB: Pros: No more wasted time getting to and from work. No boss or co-workers to deal with. I set my own hours. I can spend as much time as I like going over and redoing my own stuff.
Cons: I end up spending as much time as I like and then some, going over and redoing my own stuff.
Ian: It’s great not having to rely on anyone else. I would though, love to have a person that can stand as a translator for people who can’t understand Logic and Reason.
It’s a producer job to give input on recording. Up to what extent do you normally get involved in a particular project? How do bands normally react when you’re making suggestions?
DB: I do what I can to keep the raw recorded sound within certain range so as not to become a mixing nightmare in post. I make it clear to the bands that good recording technique is absolutely necessary to avoid headaches and wasted time later on. If the band has a professional attitude to recording they usually follow my suggestions which are entirely to do with working with the physical limitations of the hardware.
There have been times however when I've had to deal with Mr. Producer Jr. In such cases I just make sure they sign a waiver that they insisted on recording their performance a certain way against advice. As far as I am able to without compromising the quality of the recording, my studio's name goes on the credits after all, I try to accomodate the client's preferences. But if I feel they'll fuck things up irreparably I tell them so.
As for producing, I limit my involvement with a band's tone shaping to the absolute minimum and I generally leave that up to the band and their preferences. If a band wants to sound like whatever flavor of the month thing is happening, fine with me. Making a recording sound good is my job, making a band sound original is the band's job.
Ian: I don’t know if it’s me but most of them don’t seem to object. There’s a whole lot of stuff you can do to get a band to do what you want but at the end of the day, it’s their sound and I can always choose to not take credit for blunders.
I made a meme from one such experience:
"Spent a whole HOUR putting together the HEAVIEST, most BRUTAL configuration for an entirely UNIQUE and original Guitar Tone using state-of-the-art reamping hardware and the best software plugins at my disposal -- present it to a client and he says: “That’s Great, but we just want to sound like Lamb Of God!"
What genre do you think is the toughest to record?
DB: Pop. Though I should qualify that: intelligent pop. Prefab "product" pop is easy.
Ian: Toughest to record would be an orchestra. I’ve actually done that -- it’s hell on earth especially for a one-man team.
What is the most challenging aspect of doing a metal record?
DB: Compression during mastering. It's a bit tricky getting a proper compression without squeezing out the good, chaotic "liveness" of a metal recording. The second most difficult aspect I'd say is keeping the vocal clear and punchy over the rest of the band.
Ian:Getting the bands to arrive on time!
Seriously, everything about time is an issue. I’m sure no one will admit to this but a lot of the extreme drummers from our lokal scene are rhythmically challenged. I think this has something to do with having no drugs or having too much drugs! Very few have found the actual sweetspot!
Listening to records I’m assuming that the toughest instruments to record are the drums, particularly the snare and bass drums. How do you normally record them in order to get the best sound?
DB: My prefered method is four mics: one each on the kick and snare and 3:1 condensers on overheads. But I can accomodate mid-side and a fully miked kit if the client requests it. It has been my experience that the kick+snare+heads combination is the best set-up for old school death metal though.
Ian: I’ve been using snare and kick drum triggers ever since we started Demiurge Digital a couple of years back. I still use acoustic miking from time to time, depending on the drummer but now mostly it’s the triggering they ask for.
I completely get it, it sounds great right away and it eliminates the need to go through unwanted bleeding, and uncomfortable gating. Now making it sound unique will be the challenge.
Not making a drummer sound generic, that’s the new ball game.
Drum triggers and false triggers are sometimes abused by extreme metal bands these days. What’s your take on this? Can you point out the advantages and disadvantages of using this technology compared to miking up?
Ian: There’s this misconception that floats around drum triggering that have people believing that triggering can make you play better. Especially in live shows. It’s actually the opposite. An adept drummer will sound really good on a triggered kit... A novice though, might have his work cut out for him. The one good thing triggers will do for you in a live situation would be unparalleled clarity.
Issues with latency and double triggering or crosstalk [where another hit on another drum part might trigger a different one] can all be addressed and a good enough time allotted for troubleshooting and idiot-proofing will make these problems non existent.
Making a bad drummer play better isn’t at all the case. Now, if triggering a preset path of notes or drumbeats are being used in live shows then I’d have to congratulate that band. That actually seems harder to do!
Guitar tone is often the first thing that we take notice of when listening to a record. Do you have a particular tone that you always wanted to appear on the records that you produce?
DB: Not really. I usually present a preliminary mix to the guitar player for approval before making adjustments based on his/her preference. I usually mix the guitars, regardless of genre, as "hot" as they'll go without clipping (yes even the relatively quiet bits), but only after I've made sure the kick and snare punch through the mix.
Ian: Yes. I want it warm and crunchy -- like freshly fried lumpia!
I’m not a huge fan of the full metal chug. I honestly think it sounds trendy and new. There’s really something about the slightly overdriven, vintage guitar tone at line level or blasting just a few dBs under a colder more calculated, modern tone - I make sure I have that in every project! It just adds an amount of depth that’s almost unheard of these days.
Some guitarists plugs in directly to the amp and still get a rich tone while others have a rack full of effects but still sound weak. My point is how far do you think a guitarist can go in terms of gadgets in order to create a really amazing tone?
DB: Depends on what you're trying to acheive with the gear. It's a tired old saw but in most cases, particularly in rock, less really is more. If the guitar player knows what he/she is doing, an overdrive pedal pushing the overdrive/dirty channel of an amp is a magical combination.
However there are instances especially when you're going for maximum ugly, that a rack full of gear is the way to go. I've got things set-up so that if I think the guitar player needs a little help tweaking his/her tone I can give 'em a few options with regards to tone shaping. In the end I have to disregard my personal guitar tone preference since people aren't paying me to make them sound like me.
Ian: It all boils down to two things:
a] The guitar player’s skills; his knowledge on tone; and his gear.
b] The levels they were recorded at.
There are amazing sounding cuts out there now that were recorded on a laptop, without the use of a recording interface and made to sound real with just software plugins. Every technique and style is available - just season to taste.
How far do you go when it comes to mixing? Does EQ play a big role in mixing? Are you particular in terms of sound/tone during tracking?
DB:EQ doesn't just play a big role in mixing, it's absolutely necessary. Anybody who tells you they got their "godly tone" with just a mic and pressing record is a fucking liar. Without filtering out the non-essential frequencies of any instrument or the human voice, a session that sounded fantastic while you were playing it live prints like shit on playback. You can't fuck with physics, all the little hisses, clicks and rumbles all add up to ruin a recording.
Ian: EQing before finalizing a mix is important, at least for me.
It really blends it all together and will help you get certain frequencies become more dominant or be less audible during playback. I use EQ to help shape what the final outcome will be.
For tone while tracking, we use a recording interface for guitar which splits one take into three ready-to-work-with tracks. Two of those tracks will be the stereo separation of the guitar tone that we’ll work on before we press the record button. The third and last track will be a dry one which I can then use for reamping.
I’ve read and heard in one article the basic process of recording wherein a rich sounding raw record become flat after mastering. How do these happen? Can you give us a basic overview of the whole production process?
DB:Mic placement then setting the levels. After that it varies depending on how the client wants to record their music. I usually record a test run and reset the gear as needed. Then cut three to four takes per song beginning with the rhtyhm section: rhythm guitar, bass, and drums. Overdubs of the rest of the instruments follow with either the vocals or the lead instrument at the end. Whenever possible I use the single best take instead of compositing from several takes. I render several different mixes over several days for the client's approval then when I've got a mix that satisfies their requirements I assemble the master recording. Then they have that duplicated and then they distribute it. Again the production process varies according to the requirements of the client.
Ian:It happens when levels of compression are allowed to go party, unsupervised.
Also a common occurrence in preset-heavy productions.
Are there any bands that you would want to work with? What pique your interest with this band/s?
DB:No, not really. If your band has got the right attitude I can see myself working with you. I can work with nearly anyone, even christian rock bands... I don't particularly enjoy it though, and I often need a stiff drink afterward to take the edge off. Tell you what I can't stand, the prima donnas who're rock stars in their own minds who think they can have the run of the studio once they've paid my professional fee. I've never had to throw anyone off of the premises yet but some people really try my patience.
Ian: Locally, I would love the opportunity to work with Nuclear Punishment on a full length release. They have a shitload of sharp and pointy aggression wrapped in a sense of humor that does not bleed out as pretentious and callus.
They’re part of the Dead Ends tribute and the cut they recorded for that sounds like it’s party time in the no fly zone!
Can you name out 5 of your favorite albums with great production value?
DB:This is entirely subjective but here goes: Led Zeppelin - I, Blue Oyster Cult - Secret Treaties, Slayer - Reign in Blood, Annihilator - Never, Neverland and XTC - Apple Venus & Wasp Star. There's also a recording of Stevie Ray Vaughn & Double Trouble which has amazing production considering it was mixed on the fly during a live performance that was broadcast over radio. I can't recall off the top of my head what the title was.
Ian: Refused - The Shape of Punk to Come -- this is clarity and grit rolled up in a loud package.
Slayer - Undisputed Attitude -- your favorite punk/hardcore songs... Modernized and Slayerized.
The Beatles - Revolver -- waaay ahead of its time.
Indio I - Indio I -- not a big fan of lokal reggae and Star Records but this is proof that having someone with impeccable taste at the helm will make something one of a kind no matter where it’s from.
Obscura - Cosmogenesis -- fretless bass... I mean, YEAH! Fretless BASS!
What about 5 favorite albums that you wish could have a better production?
DB: There are plenty of albums that could have been mixed better but I don't spend any time wishing they were. That's time better spent on other things.
Ian: Metallica - Death Magnetic -- Rick Rubin and Metallica don’t mix well.
NOFX - Pump Up The Valuum -- the overheads on this one sound so much like heavily
compressed death metal overheads. It doesn’t sound that bad but So Long and Thanks for All the Shoes just sounded so damn good!
Demiurge - Demiurge -- limited to what we had back then in terms of tech and knowledge -- I know I could have done a better job but...
Sceptic - Pathetic Being -- we bought this album online, at first we thought it was the MP3 quality that was off and we thought of complaining. Then one of my buddies got himself the CD... It wasn’t much different from the digital download version.
SKANB - Because let’s be honest -- nobody involved in any form of production back then, except for the bands, gave a shit about the music.
Thanks a lot for your time. Anything you wanted to add?
DB:Best of luck restarting Tripalium zine. Send some of that nastiness my way when you get it printed.Thanks in advance!
Ian: More cowbell! \m/
